Animal Veg or Mineral

Maggies Garden Forum: What's This?: Animal Veg or Mineral


By Maggie on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 12:50 am: Edit Post

We haven't had a 'What's This' in so long, that there's probably not anyone out there to play it anymore. But, just in case, here's a goodun.
have a go
This is the first time I have come across them in my garden, so we were intrigued with the newbie. Larry and I guessed different identities. I had an unfair edge - knowing what had been living in the area all summer. Looked it up and confirmed my guess was right.
Anyone else want to have a go?
Hint... it is not veg or mineral


By mamakane on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 4:34 am: Edit Post

It looks likes some kind of insect cocoon to me. But it must be a huge bug! But then you grow 'em big in TX :)


By Sandra Cavanaugh on Thursday, February 06, 2003 - 12:33 am: Edit Post

Hi Maggie, I haven't had anything to say lately, but I've "looked" on occasion. I came today with a question, and can't resist "a go" (as you English say ;o) ) at your quiz. Is it Garden Spider egg cases? I've had some, and they sure looked an awful lot like those. If so, your spider was well fed! Was three the total?

My question is, would it be totally ridiculous to move Tazetta daffodils now? I figure they'd go ahead and bloom since the "buds" are up already, but would it shock them so they wouldn't bloom next year? Or are these large, old fashioned plants so tough they won't care whenever they're moved? My neighbor calls them Narcissus, but I think they're Tazettas--I found that name and description on a daffodil web site. I've never heard anyone use that term, but I don't know any daffodil experts! They're big, robust plants with broad, dark green leaves (compared to typical daffodils), and form clusters of ~15-20 small white blossoms that are EXTREMELY fragrent. My elderly neighbor was a gardener in her time, and OVER time these things have ended up in various places in her yard. She no longer likes them there come time to mow because their greenery stubbornly hangs around a lot longer than the "regular" daffodils, which she also has in her yard. This fall I dug a new bed just for bulbs and tubers (since they just seem to get lost in my "bushy" beds), and I'm itching to get a clump of the Tazettas in there!

Do you have any suggestions for other things to try that will "do" here, esp. something that would bloom later on, besides Daylillys (I have those). Nothing as big as Amaryllis. The bed is only, maybe, 10-12' by 3 to 5' (it's irregular). I have access to Grape Hyacinth, Star of Bethlehem, Snowflakes, my neighbors naturalized daffodils, but they're all early bloomers. I might try Crocosmia again, but had little luck with it in my other bed. I have sandy soil--do they prefer heavier? Also my Byzantine Gladiolas in another bed have always been kind of puny--a lot smaller than some I've seen, bloom sparsely and make lots of reedy babies.

Good Lord I've written a book. Enjoyed your last column, as usual. I really like your writing style and attention to detail. The explanation of wattle and its history was really interesting. I may try that on some small plants I have in the ground that I keep covering thru the winter.


By Maggie on Friday, February 07, 2003 - 9:33 pm: Edit Post

Sorry to be out of pocket so long.
Okay, you guys are on to it. Yes, it is a critter egg case – of the huge zipper spider. Now I am always glad to see them in the garden because their huge 3-4 ft. webs catch a lot of mosquitoes and other bad guys. But what bothers me now, is the research tells that each egg case contains 500 babies. Ack. There are 5 cases in that one juniper - that I can spot. So, there may be even more cases in it and there are probably more elsewhere in the garden, since we had at least one spider web in every bed last year. The problems with that are,,, I can’t work around the webs because I don’t want to disturb them,,, and if there are any more webs than last year, they might put an end to every butterfly in town! Oh dear.
Good idea about the bulb bed Sandra – they will love your sandy soil, esp if you add lotsa humus. Those Tazettas are so tough, that if they were mine, I would go ahead and move them – while you have the urge. Well, as soon as this little Arctic spell passes. Whenever I try to wait until something is dormant or otherwise best left until later, it seldom gets done - inspiration being the best incentive. Here’s the deal… the blooms are formed inside the bulb during fall. If they had succeeded in making buds in the bulb-womb back then, they will still bloom this year. The main drawback to moving bulbs in-leaf is that the foliage might become unsightly. It may droop or worst case, some leaves will give up and turn yellow prematurely. The best way to avoid leaf damage is make sure the soil has been moist for at least a day before you dig, then try to keep as much earth intact around the roots as possible. With a big enough rootball, they won’t even know they’ve been relocated. Water-in with some liquid nutrients such as compost tea and/or fish/seaweed stuff.

I too have had trouble with the Crocosmias that I have ordered from catalogs and have never come across any potted ones in the nurseries, so maybe our local growers haven’t managed to get them going either. I do have a nice clump or two in the long border that has managed to survive for several years and multiplies like mad, like the books warn. It looks like the red-orange ‘Lucifer’, but might be a very old strain. Came from a garden in England where they grew on rocky ledges, yet they seem to take to my clay soil just fine,,, needing more water in Tex than what northern US sources report. Because the site is sloped, the clay drains well after high summer rains and irrigating. Here, they get morning sun and afternoon shade, although full sun seems to be their pref in milder summer climes.

I suspect your Byzantine Gladiolas might be making a lot of seedlings or baby bulb offsets. If so, you are accumulating a good inventory that will bloom when mature enough – at maybe 2-3 years of age. You might try moving some of the mature ones to other spots in the garden to help induce bloom, but I expect it is more of an age thing – that old patience factor again. Mine have bloomed in every conceivable type of aspect in this garden. And every time I have transplanted the BGs, there are always some bulbs accidentally left in the original site, that return every year. Very tough babies. Did you see the pics of them growing on the coastal cliffs in England, on this site’s Virtual Stroll of Cornwall?

Sounds like you have got a good start on shared-bulbs – always the best kind! I have scheduled a summer-bulb piece for an upcoming column, but you have prompted me to get an early start on it :) Here are some perennial bulbs that first come to mind, that you can plant after our last expected frost, for summer bloom.

Oxalis make good edging plants. The white-blooming oxalis keeps green foliage and flower nearly all year, the pink-blooming oxalis go dormant in summer, but are good the rest of the year, and the burgundy leafed ones have beautiful foliage summer thru first freeze.

Another for winter foliage, spring bloom and summer dormancy is the old homestead garlic, a relative of leeks and a parent of the modern elephant garlic, of the A. ampeloprasum group. The other onion family types that do well for me are the Drumstick allium A. sphaerocephalum with its early summer lavender bloom heads, society garlic Tulbagbia violaccea which blooms off and on all summer, and the culinary chives A. schoenoprasum make for another good edging plant, esp when it is in its spring bloom.

It grows as big as Amaryllis, but I love my Peruvian daffodils, a type of Hymenocallis. They provide such lush foliage after the exotic summer blooms finish. The Zantedeschia calla lilies with spotted leaves seem to do better thru hot summers, than those with solid leaves. Arum italicum is great for winter foliage, even if the spring bloom is small and fleeting.

We already did the Lycoris radiata, but the pink-trumpeted Lycoris squarmaria is a must have. The old fashioned black-spotted orange tiger lilies are good stalwarts and more species of the family are now available from mail order catalogs. And there are other species and old cultivars of gladiolus that are as tough as the Byzantine glads. The Habranthus lily makes a super bloom, like a red sparkler on the 4th of July. It is classed as a zone 8, but David B has them returning perennial in our 7B zone. He might have some for sale again at this year’s Arlington Organic garden show in June.

If you are interested in tuberous rooted seasonals, there are some lovely gingers. And maybe you would like some bearded iris for their foliage contributions through the summer. I get good repeat blooms from Buckwheat, Skating Party and Immortality bearded iris. Another good passalong is the Spuria iris for an earlier bloom and the Louisiana irises bloom in early summer.

Peonies have very tuberous-like roots, so maybe they could join the bulb bed too. Be sure to get those classified as “early”, for them to bloom well before our early summers arrive. Gilbert and Sons is my favorite peony source. The little Rain Lilies Zephyranthes could live close to the bed edge. It is always a delightful surprise when their blooms open following summer thunderstorms. To top off the whole thing, I would use a low-growing ground cover that could allow bulbs to rise through its foliage.

Sandra, your ‘book’ questions always require a chapter/column answer! I should have you plan my column subjects for me :)
I’m so glad to hear you liked the wattle story, thank you. You might have to weave a few branches through the domed ones, near to the ground, to keep them in place – would be a proper piece of wattle then :) Or, bushel baskets are great to have around for quick covers in the beds too.


By Sandra C. on Sunday, February 09, 2003 - 12:13 am: Edit Post

Thank you for permission to move the Tazettas! Boy do I know what you mean about doing things when the mood strikes. To me Feb. is the overall best time (weather permitting) to move things. Every thing has died back and you can see and get to things better. Like, Irises, which are suppose to move in the fall. Heck. That's when my garden looks the best. I want to just admire it. I don't want to go tromping and making holes.

I appreciate all your input!! Glad to hear it isn't just me with Crocosmia, because the info I had gave the impression they were super easy. Water deficit may be my sandy bed problem. I definately want at least one Allium for the interesting round flower head and was thinking of trying the Society. Don't Arum and Ginger need shade? This bed will get sun ~11-4 PM. I have considered them for a different spot, so I'm glad to hear you say they'll do here. In fact, do you know anything about the Peacock Gingers, Kaempferias? (Ogden, p.214)

I've been perusing Welch's "Perennials..." and Scott Ogden's "Garden Bulbs...", and wonder about several specific ones they indicate will do for southerners:
1) Habranthus robustus--makes a PINK bloom late summer. Different than yours?
2) Aztec lilly, Sprekelia formosissima 'Orient Red'--this one is so pretty!! Acts like a rain lilly (Ogden p.174).
3) Tigridioids, pp.125-128 in Ogdens book. Tigridia pavonia, the one on the cover, he says doesn't do well in southern gardens. He suggests:
a) Pine Woods Lily, Alophia purpurea--native to East Texas.
b) Blue Shellflower, Nemastylis acuta--crocuslike southern native (but "seldom offered for sale"--"harvest seed in June"?)
I got interested in these because he practially drools over the pavonia one, the one on the cover. Would they be at all available? But Maggie, PLEASE don't kill yourself trying to find info about such esoteric items, just offer what you happen to know. You are a busy person, and I sometimes get carried away!! Except---MAYBE on the Aztec Lilly. That one is so cute I'd really like to try it.

What's left--I already have Rain lillys,Iris,and a monster Crinum. Peruvians and Cannas would be too big for this bed, and I'm not even going to attempt a Peony. To digress; I lived in Akron Ohio for one year and had the marvelous surprise of having one just sprout up out in the lawn! I had never seen one before.

Gosh, we probably should have started a new message thread with all this bulb banter; tis the season. Thank you so so much!


By Sandra C on Sunday, February 09, 2003 - 12:23 am: Edit Post

Oh, and I meant to ask, are Byzantine Glads NATIVE to England?


By Maggie on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 - 1:46 am: Edit Post

Bulb Banter :) luv it!
I grow Arums on the edge of a red oak canopy, where they do get pretty much full winter sun, which turns to shade about the time their foliage starts to go dormant. That is a little wild jonquil that snuck in there when I wasn’t looking.
arum

Some gingers can take only half-day shade. I think my butterfly gingers are in too deep of a shade, because they haven’t bloomed in 3 years. Must try to remember to move them this year.

The Kniphofia red hot pokers and the lovely pastel cultivars of it would love your full sun, sandy site. They like water during their active growth season – when we get spring rains and like to stay high and dry thru the summer.

I have a few gingers, but not any Peacock Gingers - bet David does tho. And about that Habranthus – David must be having a giggle at that one : ) Every time we speak of Haemanthus, it comes out of my mouth as Habranthus. Too bad I don’t take the time to proof these ‘top of the head’ ramblings, as I do published stuff ;-)
HAEMANTHUS :) coccineus bulbs grow great around here, but they might croak if we were to get one of those killer winters such as in the late 80’s, early 90’s. Here is one of mine from last year – from the David source.
Haemanthus

I love your adventurous hort spirit Sandra and industrious affinity for research. From that, do great gardeners grow. There are tons of things from Yucca Do that I would love to trial here, if time and such allowed. They have a lot of things you ask about, including Kaempferias in their awesome selection of very tempting Texas tuff stuff. Check out the exotic strain of butterfly ginger Hedychium x 'Kinkaku'on the bulb section of their site.

I have had the Tigridia pavonia several times, using it mostly as an annual here in Ft. Worth. It really is a treat! It would return perennial for me in East Texas, but seldom does so in this heavy alkaline clay. They might last longer in your sand. I often see the bulbs on nursery shelves in early summer – even at Home Depot etc.

You have me well baited with the Blue Shellflower, Nemastylis acuta : ) Not any sources or many printed ref of that one to be found. Ogden says Nemastylis geminiflora is a native of Florida, but Wasowski says it is indigenous to this part of Texas and So Central TX as well as Kansas and Missouri. And that it likes my kind of limey dirt – now if we could just source some. But W says each flower only lasts one day, and from 10am to 5pm, so it would require a good stand of them to satisfy. Also, W says seeds need be planted in fall.

About your B glad native to England question, ‘cause of them growing wild on the Virtual Stroll – no,, glads species originate from Africa, southern Europe and the Middle East. I do a spiel there on how the historic plant explorers brought specimens to England in the Vic times and earlier, and how many of the imported plants jumped the flower beds to live in the wilds… which is how Dame Nature replants her gardens - then gives us their keep. Someone’s gotta do it … right? :)

And I noticed another native African glad on the Yucca Do page above - Gladiolus tristis. Looks like a must have to me :)


By Maggie on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 - 1:52 am: Edit Post

Well, I can't seem to get links to open on the forum lately, so here is the url ..
www.yuccado.com


By Sandra C on Monday, February 24, 2003 - 9:46 pm: Edit Post

Didn't mean to be so long responding to your last installment of our private "bulb banter" ;o). Who would think to look under an "Animal, Vegatable,or Mineral" subject? But I wanted to keep it all together.

I LOVE the yuccado site! I have gone to it a number of times, trying to decide what NOT to order. They're a little pricey...but I HAVE to have a few of the rain lilys. I didn't realize there were so many different ones. Seems like a real nice outfit, and a local one. Thats a big plus.

I think I'll forget about Blue Shellflower from what you added to info on that one. But I really would like to try the Aztec Lily (Ogden's Bulb book p.175). Yuccado doesn't have that one--do you know any thing about it? Info gleened from a web search doesn't indicate it WON'T do here, but I've never seen it offered.

Here's one I found for sale at Walmart: Acidanthera. Georgeous picture on the package, and anything offered in a Texas walmart will do great here, right? ;o) I did a hunt on that one too, and one site, www.unigarden.com, points out that A.bicolor var. 'murielae' "has larger flowers and leaves, and stronger stem that the species". The pic they had of that one LOOKED like the pic on the Walmart package. Hum. The Walmart package says only Acidanthera. I'd fear that it is the species, which isn't nearly as pretty. Know anything about this one?

Yuccado also had two Kaempferia gingers, which I thought were all short ones. (I want a short one) But--either that isn't true, or you are not the only one having trouble getting your work published the way you want it. They're specs say that K. gilbertii is 8"h and 12'w (12 ft.?) and the K. parviflora is 15'h and 20"w. Do even standard gingers get that tall?

Another plant in Yuccado's bulb section (I promise this is the last one!) that looks very intriguing is called Sinningia sellovei. The flower looks a lot like Bleeding Heart, a georgous, graceful plant that doesn't do here (I tried). What do you think?


By Maggie on Wednesday, February 26, 2003 - 1:03 am: Edit Post

I have been meaning to order in Aztec Lilies for years. Have found a good source for you – and me :-)
here
If Scott Ogden says they are cold hardy in our zone 7b, it is worth a try and, because they are black skinned bulbs, they will probably tolerate heavy dirt well.

Here’s an old pic of some Zephyranthes Rain Lilies that have done well for me. They are the most commonly-found ones in chain sources. Would love to try some others,,, so if You do, we’d love to get reports on them. oxoxxo
rain lilies

Yes, I too have picked up Acidanthera bulbs locally and tried it several times in sev sites. The only time they bloomed the first year was over the French Drain, with summer irrigation. Those that did return the next year in the French Drain bed, failed to bloom again and were completely gone the 3rd year. Dave’s friend, Peggy, potted up dozens of them last spring. I bought some from her in foliage, in hopes that the initial potting might do the trick,,, but no. I left some in the pot and planted others. In both cases, neither bloomed last year. Have been wondering if any of hers bloomed.

The best ref source on the web for gingers is Dave Skinner, because he seems to personally grow what he writes about and probably doesn’t have anyone messing with his final copy :-) His profile on K. gilbertii says it grows 7” tall, so I would bank on that. Man that’s a pretty one! If it does spread 12 ft, per Yucdo, save me some extras : )

That Sinningia sellovei looks yummy. Because Yuc says it is hardy in Zones 7b to 10, it seems worth a try.

And Yuccado’s Hypoxis rooperi looks like a winner … here

Oh, and here’s a good one for you – the wild orchid, Bletilla striata. I posted a pic of it somewhere on the forum before, I think(?) Does really well for me.


By Maggie on Wednesday, February 26, 2003 - 1:13 am: Edit Post

Well,,, one of the above links works, but not the other. The Aztec lily source is www.touchofnature.com


By Sandra C. on Thursday, February 27, 2003 - 2:56 am: Edit Post

Thanks so much for input and suggestions!

I think I'll forget Acidanthera, and agree about the Hypoxis rooperi. That one's worth trying just to see why its common name is (gag) Ape's Armpit!

I'll check out the Dave Skinner ginger site, and also the Bletilla striata. (whew! I better get some plant markers)

Love the rainlily picture! I was wanting to get at least one each of those colors. Do yours bloom only at one time of year, or off and on? The only one I have now is the Giant Prairie Lily, and I (and others) have noticed that it seem to know the difference between hose water and rain water, prefering to bloom after a real thunderstorm. I got to wondering if it is triggered by ozone in the air from lightening strikes, more so than the water? Just a weird thought.

Well, I guess we're both going to try the Aztec Lily! Ironically, I had located several internet sources, and the one you suggest had about the best price that I have found so far. One local nursery said they might get some in. Concerning the appropriate zone, on different sites, I found 9, 7-9, 8-10, and 9-11. Whatever! I think I am zone 8. In most charts I've seen, 8 dips up to encompass most of D-FW (city heating effect,I assume).

The problem with poking aroound on all these sites is that you keep finding (aaahhhhhh!!!) one more thing...!! Have you ever seen Hippeastrum papilio? I can't find much practical info, but check it out on Dutchgardens.com. It doesn't seem to be one of the big ones. I'm tempted, but it's pretty pricey.

I didn't know the deal with black bulbs! Wonder why that is.


By Maggie on Saturday, March 01, 2003 - 2:26 am: Edit Post

I've been admiring that H. papilio in catalogs for sooo long. Glad you told me about the new price - it used to go for 40 or 50 bucks when it first came out. So,,, the $15 sounds a lot better now, yes? Dutchgardens page says it grows to 2 feet. Sounds like it would be about the same size as the H. johnsonii. I have no idea if would be hardy down here. Gosh its a beautiful thing!

Here is a little treasure I came across last week. Got it from someone who dug the bulbs out of an old garden where the house had been removed and the land was about to be leveled. They weren't sure about exactly what it is, but my best guess is that of a pink version of Roman Hyacinths or Wood Hyacinths. Trying to decipher between those is maddening.
It has the sweetest hyacinth scent.
pink hyacinth


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