I can forgive Datura for its size and too many seedlings, because of its gorgeous fragrant blooms.

I agree completely. Here's a pic I took with Robs standing in front of one to try to show the actual size of the plant.

Mags, why don't you post a pic of the beauty outside your greenhouse?

Naw, I'm camera shy. Oh, you mean the plant ...
This is the tropical Brugmansia, known as 'angel trumpet'

I started it from a piece of stem about 8" long. Was so glad it survived the greenhouse open door episode last winter. Is 6ft. tall in only 10" pot.
Here's a face on view


Robert looks as pleased to have his pic taken as I would ;-) He sure has grown a lot since last year. That bed is looking good Caro

Thanx for posting the pic. I MUST have one of those. Have been tempted to order one the last couple of years, but never got around to it. However, now that I've seen how well it will do here (even with the green house open door fiasco), I'll bump it higher up on the priority list.

Yes. Robert is at that stage where he grows by leaps and bounds. He's already taller than I, and will probably be as tall as his father in another year.

So that! is the loco weed, heard it mentioned in westerns but they tend not to go into botanic details. They are unusual plants, I had the yellow one a few years ago, but too cold here, even in the greenhouse.

Nicola had the purple ones down south of you near London, but said she was disappointed in them. It may have been a temp thing too.

Here's the Brugmansia pics Sandra. I used the keyword search on the navi bar to the left of these pages and it popped right up. Must remember to do that more often instead of getting lost in a lot of topics (sheepish grin :}

Don't apologize for computer skills--you all are way ahead of me!

Is Brugmansia a tropical cousin of the local white, night blooming Datura? Does it make the same large prickley seed pods? I enjoyed seeing both the pictures above. I also have a Datura, but mine struggles for its place in my one overcrowded sunny bed. They're so interesting looking on their own, they really deserve their own spot, like Carolyn's.

Terry, I don't even know you so I feel like a jerk saying this, but loco weed is a different plant. Would it be more polite if I said "how do you do" first :-) ? I bring this up because I wanted to share something I just recently read about Datura, which is also called Jimson Weed. The plant is considered toxic (as is loco weed). I knew that, but it turns out that "Jimson" is a bastardization of "Jamestown", and the plant, "Jamestown Weed", became notorious for having gotten some of our original Jamestown settlers into trouble. I don't recall whether they tried to eat it, or whether the Indians played a trick on them and told them to smoke it, or what, but I guess it caused its partakers to exhibit some strange behaviors. Those alkaloids will do that!

Word origins are so interesting. My favorite plant one (that I can always remember) is the origin of the word DANDELION. Can anybody guess?

Yes, Sandra, Datura and Brugmansia are closely related. In fact, they were both classified under the brug name at one time. I believe that both of them are still retailed in UK as 'brugmansias'.

There are some lubberly yellow and double purple daturas too. And, there are two kinds of white daturas - the one we usually get around here is native to the Eastern US, such as grew in Jamestown. (if I remember right, the "strange behavior" was swinging from the trees naked!) Besides being hallucinogenic, it can also cause death, if enough is consumed. But enough of that! No,,, wait,,, about loco weed and datura being the same plant - I should double check, but believe I have often found ref to them being the one and same. If wrong, please enlighten me of opposing reference.

The other Datura species, native to western US is the one in G. O'Keefe painting - very sim, but more drought tolerant that the thirstier eastern one.

That Terry has deserted us for a new pursuit (he never does anything half way!), but promises to return as soon as he completes a massive programing project.

Just in case he shows up soon ...
Look Terry,,, you left your mark and are missed by all.

Dandelion name origin - please tell

Concerning the Datura--loco weed question. I'm good at doing the foot in mouth thing, and we all know how reliable common names are, but according to the Texas wildflower books I have, Locoweed is a small, bluebonnet looking plant in the Legume family. It is either Astragalus mollissimus, Wooly Locoweed, or Oxytropis lambertii, just Locoweed. Both are shown in Ajilvsgi's guide, Wildflowers of Texas. Both are very toxic to grazing animals, esp. horses. The first one they won't eat readily, but the second one they will. Now, I'm sure you know more about Locoweed than you ever wanted to! Actually, Ajilvsgi says it (2nd one) is beautiful when flowering and is a great garden specimen.

OK, Dandelion. I may not spell this right, but it is from the French, Dent de Lion (Lyon?), or Tooth of the Lion, because of the jagged-edged leaves. Isn't that cute? Us ignorant "Anglish-speakers" morphed it into Dandelion, I guess.

Love the Dandelion origins :-) Maybe we should start another thread for favorite plant names and their origins.

I shouldn’t get started on the Datura thing – I spent hours sorting out the different species for an article last year. Thing this, the larger the library – the more conflicts one discovers among published accounts – particularly in retail books. The plants with the most contradictory entries on my shelves might very well be the Datura family (esp in the wildflower books). And the amount of conflicting sources on the net becomes quite laughable.

When in doubt, it is best to go to the most current professional sources possible. In my case, that is usually Hortus. The big book with the tiny print and lots of abbreviations can be so boring to plow through until it finally reveals what yer looking for, but it is the most definitive - unless one can meet in person with the botanists who have made the scientific name changes since the last edition was published. : ) I know their work is significant in the long run, but it sure keeps writers and researchers on our toes in the meantime.

There is a lot more to the Datura family than I want to deal with here, but I’ll drag us through the most significant bits I managed to establish. The one native to Southwest U.S. is Datura meteloides var. quecuspida, which is often labeled as Datura meteloides – which is actually a synonym of subsp. D. inoxia., which is still sometimes classed with Brugmansia, but the bots actually separated the two in the past. From the Brugsmansia x candida (small tropical native to Central America) comes the cultivated varieties classified as Brugmansia arborea, sometimes still labeled by growers as Datura arborea.

The one we more often pass around here is D. stramonium which is native to Eastern U.S., ergo Jamestown, Jimsom weed. It, and all of those above and some others are often referred to as Thornapple, Angel’s Trumpet, Horn of Plenty, Locoweed and so on. Although, most claim that Thornapple should only refer to the D. stramonium, and the Angel’s Trumpet to Brugsmansias, and Thorn Apple to any of the Daturas that have prickly seedpods (one Datura has smooth pods). Apparently, the locoweed name was given to any number of plants that took folks and four-footers for a ride.

If that was a yawner to read,,, just imagine it at this end ;-)
And just think - I get to go through all this every week, when working on my Plant This series for the paper. Ack
Oh, and sorry I didn't bother to code all those proper names in italics properly - I'm claiming laziness tonight

Hey, I started this one, so I read every word. If your "big book" calls Datura locoweed I guess I can't argue; I'm working from field guides.

Terry-----never mind!

Do you have, or have you perused, the (North?) Texas plant reference recently (last few years) put out by BRIT? If so, what do you think of it? I've debated getting it, I have enough biology background to like to "be in the know", but not being a professional like you guys I don't really NEED it, to defend myself against smartalecs like me.

I wonder what it says about locoweed?.... :-)...I'm nothing if not stubborn.

P.S. Maggie, your Plant This series is much appreciated. I clip & save most of them.

As with your field guides listing the toxic pea plants as hallucinogenic locoweeds, you would also find many books listing the Datura as a commonly-called locoweed too. Searching the net for “datura locoweed or loco weed” will produce ca-billions of references to all of them as being known by the casual name. Spoke with Barney Lipscomb today at BRIT (author of the book you mention above). He concurs on how various toxic tripping plants have come to be given the loco tag. There are mountains of scientific tomes at the institute’s library that would be great fun to explore, such as ‘The comparative anatomy of extra-chromosomal types in Datura stramonium’ by Edmund W. Sinnott and Helen Houghtaling and Albert F. Blakeslee. Sinnott is known as the world’s foremost authority on plant hallucinogens and medical flora of So American Indians.

I admire your biology background, inquisitive persistence, and plant name penchant. Please continue to share your ponderings with us Sandra ,,, even better,,, let me dub you the official forum plant-name-researcher if you like (oxoxox), we can use all the help we can get around here Oh, and esp with I-D-ing crawly, slithery, creepy things.

Like you, I also find the origins of common names delightful – and plant folklore. I’ll open a new thread for you on it, if you like.

Thanks for the encouragement on the Plant This series. Bet you also clip Gail’s quarterly organic guides on the cover of the Home section every 3 months. You can still ref them thru our search engine here (as well as her articles), even tho the last time we changed site-making programs, it messed up the monthly layout on Gail’s pages,,, but it will be restored asap.

Oh my. If you rub elbows with Barney Lipscomb I'd be way over my head with plant names. Thank you for asking him and I'll say no more about locoweed! I'm just learning, but I do like to get it right,if I'm going to bother.(See--I just learned about locoweed, and I learned to not take my field guides too seriously!) I get so frustrated with the sloppy and greatly differing tag information on plants at nurseries. Sometimes I wonder why THEY bother. And it's either getting worse, or I'm just learning more. I bet you ladies long ago threw up your hands on that one. (I'm not sure how I got off on that topic)

I will throw my two cents in if you get into discussions about creepy crawlys. I need to get a digital camera. I ocassionally get shots that I'd love to show off. Late summer I took a series of pictures of a cicada emerging from his shell with a regular camera that came out pretty good, if I say so myself!

Yes I also clip Gail's quarterly gardening calenders. Thank you Gail for your efforts! I bet there's a big silent audience out there that does the same! I'm glad I found your web site, I'll probably bug you often, and am tickled that you both find time to talk.

Sandra, we love talking gardenshop with any and all. Join in often. Did I miss it...are you in FW? I figure you posted this already and I'm being a ditz and don't remember. It was all the turkey -- made me groggy and foggy in the brain! I'm still gobbling...gobble, gobble.

You must have brought home leftovers Gail - cause I Know you didn't cook one ;-)

Nothing wrong with your field guides Sandra, it’s just that they don’t have room for all the info you wanted, because they are made to be portable. Even then, I find it often takes numerous ref sources to get the whole picture. And since I write about plants I have actually grown myself - that in itself is my most dependable regional cultivating resource – esp in the case of printed contradictions. It is amazing how many garden writers only copy others’ work without any hands-on to rely on. I even met a ‘garden writer’ at a conference with 3 published books – who has never had a garden :-0 Admits she dudn’t know nuthin bout it at all. Scary huh?

I know what you mean about those plant labels. It really annoys me when growers don’t take their responsibility seriously enough to get it right. Although, the humongous plant farms such as Monrovia seem to have large enough staff and resources to do a good job on the names, but still often give far too generic cultivating info that doesn’t apply to southern garden regions. Shouldn’t complain – helps keep me in business ;-)

About getting a digi camera – cool! Tell Santa J
I have taken film prints to camera shop to have them put on disc for web use. Works a treat. Would love to see that cicada emergence pic!

I have a bug-gy one for you to help us with. Will open a new thread for it.

Gail, I live in north Grapevine in one of those old lake neighborhoods--very eclectic, old and new, small and large. Real estate agents have fun trying to appraise homes in here! We built in 1993. I like it because it's tucked away, stable and quiet(usually), a good bird area, and close to Corps property and a great hike and bike trail. It is sandy, Eastern Crosstimbers Post Oak country. I'm SICK at how many native trees are being lost to development and ignorance, am grateful that (so far) I've saved mine on my half acre.

Yes, I did briefly state my location before (we were discussing soil type), but you are forgiven. It's not like you don't have anything else to think about. I have even met you (sort of). Grapevine Garden Club came and toured your Orchid green house, we purused your perennial beds, weeded a little (obsessive gardeners can,t keep their hands off other people's weeds---but I don't think you minded! ;-)), and took home some babies. I think it was last April. Also, you have given much enjoyed programs to our club.

Sandra,

Sounds like you have a wonderful place. I love birding up that direction in some of the nature areas.

But I'm a bit confused...

I HATE speaking in public...must have been maggie you were referring too? Or maybe Dotty Woodson...or another...

It's been about 10 years since I did a program in Grapevine, unless you have attended one I gave to the Master Gardeners.

So, it must be Dotty and her orchids. That's okay Sandra ,,, folks also confuse Gail Morris with our ST editor, Gaile Robinson too. I once had a boss named McGee. Our foriegn contacts never could sort that one out :-0

Whoooooooops!!!!!

It----must have been------Dotty Woodson

How does one make an embarassed face? :o# Hows that?

Good face Sandra, I'll keep it on file for frequent future use ;-)

Hello Gail, I just realized I didn't say anything to you directly, guess I was too busy being embarrassed. I apologize for confuseing you with Dotty, and I hope I do get to meet you some time, and put YOUR face with your name!

Serves her right for not letting me use her pic on her pages

David,,, here's the thread with pics of the peachy brugmansia,, up near the top